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Israel, on the other hand, is doing everything it can to minimize casualties, often at expense of their own lives. I am not aware of any other army on Earth that warns the opposite force of the precise location and timing of the next attack. No other army has ever went such length to protect the people who support its enemy. There is a general tendency that, when there are wars, the secondary effects famine and disease kill far more people than the fighting itself does. In this case, there are credible accusations that the Israeli blockade is responsible for shortages of food, fuel, medicine, clean water, and housing.
But I take the utilitarian calculus view, and from that perspective, Israel is pretty clearly in the wrong. Although the direct death toll is pretty high by modern standards: deaths is 41 per ,, as compared to a US automobile accident death rate of 11 per , per year. Create a new state of Israel, Israel 2. Grant automatic Israel 2.
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Progressively abandon this land of horrible killings in middle-east to hatred and religious extremists, and demonstrate again how a flourishing state, Israel 2. What made you think it was a good idea to establish your people precisely there? Israel 2. Well, in another century or two, after the Arctic has become a temperate zone, maybe it will be possible to start an Israel 2.
Certainly there was no such offer in the s, when it was needed far more than now.
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Notice that bullying is not limited to Israel. Would you suggest sending citizens of India to India 2. Would you suggest relocating French to France 2. Would you suggest sending off Shiite muslims because of the violence coming from Sunni muslims and relocating Sunni muslims because of violence coming from Shiite muslims? Or perhaps the perpetrators of permanent violence across the globe need to back off and let others live peacefully?
This is the very definition of the state of Israel, before any other romantic cause such as returning to its historical roots or whatever. We respect the Jews, it is only the state of Israel and its political system and leaders which is the source of all troubles on earth. However, as oppose to most of the western world Israel is facing a concrete existential treat.
This is not a theoretical treat, it is very real, and many wonderful Israelis pay with their lives in order to stand the treat. This should come with no surprise. Although you disregard and underestimate the old book, it is this wonderful book in which the best moral values are written, and it is this moral heritage which is still with us today. Not the stories of wars three thousands years ago. The moral values!
This is very difficult to accept because this is just what the millions Arab say: we are million people living in the middle east and therefore the middle east the whole of it is ours, its Arabic. The Jews only fill few scattered cities, two percents of the population on less than one percent of the area.
But let us accept for a moment your statement. Or is it only the lives of others that you are so willingly agree to jeopardise? Your comparison with India, France and Irak is moot, as it lacks any historical base. But I would add a 4th observation: Confused people on the internet blame Israel for everything, because for some strange reason it makes them feel better. Humor me while I try out a thought experiment. And suppose Sweden chose to rescue the Swedes anyway.
The problem is not in that two peoples live on the same land. The most prominent of these groups is Hamas, a terrorist organization that murdered numerous innocent people, including both israeli and palestinians. Hamas is spreading hate among palestinian children, Hamas kidnaps israeli children, Hamas shoots rocket that fall sometimes in Israel and sometimes in Gaza, and Hamas turns civilian buildings into military bases, thus inviting return fire.
And then millions of Arabs blame the whole thing on Israel!
There were nearly times more civilians killed in Syria than in Gaza, and yet all the rallys that violently protest Middle East violence turn against Israel and also Jews who live outside Israel and never been to Middle East, as in recent violence in France. The ones who correctly judge the situation are afraid to speak up in fear of Hamas. In fact, there were a few violent deaths of Palestinian who dared to speak up against Hamas. Great thought experiment! A few comments about the dilemma. First, the numbers matter. Can anyone explain those 4 children on the beach, for example?
What was that about? What I reject is the anointment of Israel as some kind of Defender of the Faith for the Jewish people. Issues related to Israel and the Middle East are purely geopolitical, like problems in so many other parts of the world. Of course, Israel is a Jewish state, and while I think that secular government is the right ideal to strive for, I can certainly stand behind Israel remaining a Jewish for the foreseeable future state given the challenges in their part of the world.
Perhaps a scholarly reference will help avert the apprehended outcome. The parties will maintain the Status Quo of the Holy places in Jerusalem. A number of objections can be raised in regard to these principles, among which is the cogent and over-arching objection paraphrased from multiple sources. Supposing that the default alternative to finding a principled path forward for Israel and Palestine is to recapitulate in the 21st century the unhappy narrative of Dinah and Shechem Genesis 34 , then can Shtetl Optimized readers conceive of one or more viable path s forward?
I think racism is much more equilibrated between two parts than what your are claiming. My conviction comes among other things from your own frightening comments. I know that some extreme right-wings politicians in France claim that, by this is still false. I am not saying that there is no violence at all, but not that much nor more than before. Scott 87 I think you are right, I am not trying to be racist but from what i see all the time ,most of the extreme left wings jews that calls IDF murderers are Ashkenazi Jews who live in the center of Israel that was immune to the rocket threat for years unlike the north and south, most of them seemed to be bullied in school , and those opinion also come from the family which was in and sent them to Hashomer Hatzair , and always buy Haaretz News paper.
Now, after month of bombing and cirens in Tel Aviv some of those people bubble may explode, and they will see the reality.
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Israel You will find it very difficult to motivate Jews abandoning their geographical roots. These roots are deeply connected with their history and the bible. Eventually only a small fraction of the secular Jews will accept the invitation. By the way, this has already been tried by the Russians in Birobidzhan and failed. A second point is that when the first Israelis migrated to Palestine the place was almost completely deserted. James Babcock: the Israeli blockade is responsible for shortages of food, fuel, medicine, clean water, and housing. This is incorrect.
There is no Israeli blockade of Gaza. The Hamas and Egypt have full control over this southern border. Also, there is no shortage of medicine in the West Bank or Gaza. On the contrary, the Palestinians have probably one of the best medical systems in the Arab world nowadays. The few that were living here were small communities of Jews who adhere to the holy land, migrating tribes of Bedouin, and Ottoman administration.
It was the first waves of Jewish immigrants that brought prosperity to this land of swamps and deserts, and this became a magnet for poor Arabs from all over the Middle east, looking for opportunity to earn their living. Second: Israel do not persecute! Israel treats its enemies in a most respectable manner, perhaps better than any other country in the history of human beings.
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And even more wicked is the comparison between the persecutions of Jews in the diaspora, to the suffering of Arabs due to their aggressiveness and death admiration. Third: the vision of Israel is Harmony and freedom to all communities. The Arab citizens of Israel enjoy all the rights that every Jew enjoys, although they do not share all the obligations Jews carry. For instance, they do not have to give three years of their lives to army service. Israel is the most plural country in the world permitting representatives of their enemies sitting in its own parliament.
Show me another country ever allowed that! However, I was in Israeli army in the end of the eighties. I have seen the contempt and at best, indifference, towards human lives when it came to palestianian or lebanese civilians, so please do not try to convince me of the opposite. I know personally of one circumstance when a soldier from my platoon killed a palestinian woman who, if I recall correctly, was putting laundry on trhe balcony, and got away with it in the martial court.
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And all this happened when Israel was still a relatively normal country, with the High Court tending very much to the left even may be too much. The readers comments on the news on the site of ynet Yedioth Ahronot, a leading Israeli newspaper are full of expressions of joy for the killing of palestinian civilians and wishes that there may be more of this killing go with google translator on the site of ynet for a proof.
The recent verdicts of the High Court also show quite clearly, in my opinion, where the wind blows. Is it correct that, because of birth rates, sooner or later the Hasidic Ultra-Orthodox Jewish population will be the majority in Israel? What would be the impact of this on the Palestinian situation? I think the primary goals of the rocket attacks are 1 provocation and 2 symbolic resistance.
In this they have been quite successful — they have provoked a large Israeli response that has earned them a great deal of sympathy around the world, and they have greatly increased their popularity among Palestinians, while discrediting their political opponents i. Abbas and the PA. Itai Actually, my thinking was basically the opposite of what you say.